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	<title>Comments on: Upstart in Universe</title>
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	<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/</link>
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		<title>By: Scott James Remnant</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-1438</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott James Remnant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1438</guid>
		<description>As time has gone on, I&#039;ve learned far more about launchd and &quot;get&quot; it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As time has gone on, I&#8217;ve learned far more about launchd and &#8220;get&#8221; it.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-1437</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-1437</guid>
		<description>The coverage of launchd here is a bit short. Its actually quite more capable than it may seem. Launchd actually has many additional events, which make Upstart much less unique than might be assumed. Launchd can launch a job on: Network up (or down), any mount, or any IPC request. Launchd doesn&#039;t implement the IPC itself, so it avoids the given criticism of D-BUS, but by listing the entry-points for IPC in the appropriate launchd configuration files, a job will be started when it is requested. 

Its the IPC request that removes the need to include an explicit dependency model, and so simply skips over the impossible-to-overcome limitation in Upstart where the network might be required to boot, or might not be required for much of anything excpet Firefox. This also means that the duplication of configuration can be avoided: instead of editing the nfs files, then fstab, then the &quot;network is needed for everything so start it first&quot; event file for Upstart, everything just works since as soon as somebody asks for network, the network just comes up. Less config file editing. More just works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The coverage of launchd here is a bit short. Its actually quite more capable than it may seem. Launchd actually has many additional events, which make Upstart much less unique than might be assumed. Launchd can launch a job on: Network up (or down), any mount, or any IPC request. Launchd doesn&#8217;t implement the IPC itself, so it avoids the given criticism of D-BUS, but by listing the entry-points for IPC in the appropriate launchd configuration files, a job will be started when it is requested. </p>
<p>Its the IPC request that removes the need to include an explicit dependency model, and so simply skips over the impossible-to-overcome limitation in Upstart where the network might be required to boot, or might not be required for much of anything excpet Firefox. This also means that the duplication of configuration can be avoided: instead of editing the nfs files, then fstab, then the &#8220;network is needed for everything so start it first&#8221; event file for Upstart, everything just works since as soon as somebody asks for network, the network just comes up. Less config file editing. More just works.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-722</guid>
		<description>As far as I understand, common scripts as sysvconfig or ksysv will not work anymore with upstart?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I understand, common scripts as sysvconfig or ksysv will not work anymore with upstart?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jakepain</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-707</link>
		<dc:creator>jakepain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 09:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-707</guid>
		<description>hello,scott,
I have a program!
What&#039;s the relation between udev and upstart?
I know udev can receive &quot;event&quot; from linux kernel,but does it emit &quot;event&quot; to upstart init daemon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello,scott,<br />
I have a program!<br />
What&#8217;s the relation between udev and upstart?<br />
I know udev can receive &#8220;event&#8221; from linux kernel,but does it emit &#8220;event&#8221; to upstart init daemon?</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25</guid>
		<description>While this is probably old news to most I just discovered it when a friend came to me worried that his new installation of Ubuntu was borked because he couldnt find /etc/init.d.  He was putting off rebooting because of this fear that the system would never boot again.  Long story short this page is one of the first things I found trying to compare upstart to launchd and init.

Having worked with, supported and administered unix and linux systems for 17 or so years I think the idea presented here is great!  A good replacement for the &#039;just a bunch of scripts&#039; has been far far too long in coming, something at least launchd didnt manage to breach either.  Its projects like this that get me excited about distributions like ubuntu and by extension debian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While this is probably old news to most I just discovered it when a friend came to me worried that his new installation of Ubuntu was borked because he couldnt find /etc/init.d.  He was putting off rebooting because of this fear that the system would never boot again.  Long story short this page is one of the first things I found trying to compare upstart to launchd and init.</p>
<p>Having worked with, supported and administered unix and linux systems for 17 or so years I think the idea presented here is great!  A good replacement for the &#8216;just a bunch of scripts&#8217; has been far far too long in coming, something at least launchd didnt manage to breach either.  Its projects like this that get me excited about distributions like ubuntu and by extension debian.</p>
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		<title>By: Pablo</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-24</guid>
		<description>As far as I understand, common scripts as sysvconfig or ksysv will not work anymore with upstart?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I understand, common scripts as sysvconfig or ksysv will not work anymore with upstart?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-23</guid>
		<description>Re: Doug

While I&#039;ve been familiarizing myself with upstart, I&#039;ve been asking the same question. IMO, it can be viewed from a different viewpoint thought in regards to the UNIX philosophy.

You can view cron, inetd, anacron, etc as variations on the same theme. Starting jobs on time, network activity, etc. It may seem construed, but the current situations seems to me like wc were split up into four different commands, depending whether you want to count lines,  characters. bytes or words.

It is of course due to historical reasons that jobs management is like this, but this is the rare exception where I don&#039;t see merging functionalities as a necessarily bad thing. It is a fine line to walk though.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Doug</p>
<p>While I&#8217;ve been familiarizing myself with upstart, I&#8217;ve been asking the same question. IMO, it can be viewed from a different viewpoint thought in regards to the UNIX philosophy.</p>
<p>You can view cron, inetd, anacron, etc as variations on the same theme. Starting jobs on time, network activity, etc. It may seem construed, but the current situations seems to me like wc were split up into four different commands, depending whether you want to count lines,  characters. bytes or words.</p>
<p>It is of course due to historical reasons that jobs management is like this, but this is the rare exception where I don&#8217;t see merging functionalities as a necessarily bad thing. It is a fine line to walk though.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:59:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Re: Doug

While I&#039;ve been familiarizing myself with upstart, I&#039;ve been asking the same question. IMO, it can be viewed from a different viewpoint thought in regards to the UNIX philosophy.

You can view cron, inetd, anacron, etc as variations on the same theme. Starting jobs on time, network activity, etc. It may seem construed, but the current situations seems to me like wc were split up into four different commands, depending whether you want to count lines,  characters. bytes or words.

It is of course due to historical reasons that jobs management is like this, but this is the rare exception where I don&#039;t see merging functionalities as a necessarily bad thing. It is a fine line to walk though.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Doug</p>
<p>While I&#8217;ve been familiarizing myself with upstart, I&#8217;ve been asking the same question. IMO, it can be viewed from a different viewpoint thought in regards to the UNIX philosophy.</p>
<p>You can view cron, inetd, anacron, etc as variations on the same theme. Starting jobs on time, network activity, etc. It may seem construed, but the current situations seems to me like wc were split up into four different commands, depending whether you want to count lines,  characters. bytes or words.</p>
<p>It is of course due to historical reasons that jobs management is like this, but this is the rare exception where I don&#8217;t see merging functionalities as a necessarily bad thing. It is a fine line to walk though.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Re: Doug

While I&#039;ve been familiarizing myself with upstart, I&#039;ve been asking the same question. IMO, it can be viewed from a different viewpoint thought in regards to the UNIX philosophy.

You can view cron, inetd, anacron, etc as variations on the same theme. Starting jobs on time, network activity, etc. It may seem construed, but the current situations seems to me like wc were split up into four different commands, depending whether you want to count lines,  characters. bytes or words.

It is of course due to historical reasons that jobs management is like this, but this is the rare exception where I don&#039;t see merging functionalities as a necessarily bad thing. It is a fine line to walk though.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Doug</p>
<p>While I&#8217;ve been familiarizing myself with upstart, I&#8217;ve been asking the same question. IMO, it can be viewed from a different viewpoint thought in regards to the UNIX philosophy.</p>
<p>You can view cron, inetd, anacron, etc as variations on the same theme. Starting jobs on time, network activity, etc. It may seem construed, but the current situations seems to me like wc were split up into four different commands, depending whether you want to count lines,  characters. bytes or words.</p>
<p>It is of course due to historical reasons that jobs management is like this, but this is the rare exception where I don&#8217;t see merging functionalities as a necessarily bad thing. It is a fine line to walk though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Doug Goldstein</title>
		<link>http://www.netsplit.com/2006/08/26/upstart-in-universe/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Goldstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-20</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re contradicting yourself a bit. You&#039;re saying upstart replaces init, cron, inetd, and possibly other daemons. However further down your argument against using D-BUS is the classic UNIX argument of do one thing and do it right. No reason to fold everything into &quot;init&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re contradicting yourself a bit. You&#8217;re saying upstart replaces init, cron, inetd, and possibly other daemons. However further down your argument against using D-BUS is the classic UNIX argument of do one thing and do it right. No reason to fold everything into &#8220;init&#8221;.</p>
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